Spotting on Lincoln BU Memorials

[ehost4u]

I recently recived a lot of BU Memorials (all different dates) I purchased over the Internet. In examining these coins I noticed a spotting on many of the coins. I was disappointed in the lot and wrote to the seller. She offered to refund my purchase.

These coins, I am told were taken from rolls and placed into 2 X 2's prior to the sale.

The coins appear in very good condition other then the spotting. I purchased these coins because I want to complete a BU set of Lincoln Memorials.

My question - Am I too picky? Does the spotting greatly take away from the value of the coins? I didn't pay an arm and a leg for them and yes I am sure I could get much better quality at a much higher price, but not really in a position to do that at the present time.

Thanks for any reply to these questions.

[Robert]

If you're not happy, return them. The term "BU" means "Brilliant Uncirculated", which implies "shiny", un-spotted coins. Blemishes such as spots should have been either described or shown in photos. They certainly would have been seen by whoever took them out of rolls and put them in 2x2s.

That's my opinion. Does anyone agree/disagree?

Cheers,
Robert

[smed]

It could be a shyster who is using BU for Borderline Uncirculated.

But, you know as well as I that any time you see a coin advertised as BU all you're guaranteed is that you'll be getting a coin... unless they take the money and run.

** The following is not a paid political announcement. The following is my own personal opinion and should not be confused with the opinion of anybody else, especially anyone proclaiming to know anything. **

BU means nothing. It is not a grade/state of preservation, it is a lazy shorthand used for a shiny coin by people who don't know how to grade. Buy a coin advertised as BU and count yourself lucky if you get a coin with 90% original mint luster.

[cladking]

Many collectors will greatly discount a spotted coin and some won't collect them at all. Just because a coin is inexpensive is no reason to lower ones standard.

You'll find some of the memorials are a little tough to find without problems. The '84-D, for instance, usually has carbon spots and most of the ones that don't will have bubbles and other defects in the plating. Some dates are almost always scratched or banged-up.

[Mark]

ehost4u:

I concur with the other opinions that spotty coins are not desirable. You might consider buying coins that have been encapsulated by a reputable grading company. The three grading companies most experienced collectors recommend are PCGS and NGC, followed by ANACs. There are many "bottom feeding" companies, so I think you should stick to the big three. My belief is that you will pay more for these coins but the encapsulation should give you some assurance about 1) the grade, 2) likely the coins will not spot in the future. ("Likely" does NOT equal "no spotting guaranteed.") Of the three, I guess I'd recommend PCGS because their guarantee about copper coins "turning" is the best of the three major companies.

Mark

[Robert]

Page 105 of the Dec 8 issue outlines their Policy for Advertising Uncirculated Coins:

"Borderline Uncirculated must me a minimum of AU-55 and CANNOT be abbreviated as BU."

"Uncirculated, Brilliant Uncirculated or Select Uncirculated must be a minimum of Mint State 60."


More info can be found here: http://www.coinworld.com/customerservice/advertising/Standards.asp

Other aspects of their advertising policy can be found here: http://www.coinworld.com/customerservice/advertising/Policy.asp


This post is meant to demonstrate the necessity of clearly defined standards (along with some examples) and is not intended as an endorsement of Coin World, per se.

As a customer, it's nice to have some recourse if needed. Hopefully, a well-established periodical would act to maintain their reputation. Also, the likelihood of being ripped off by a long-time advertizer in a respected periodical is pretty slim. Of course, your mileage may vary...

[ehost4u]

Thank you all for your very informative replies.

I think the term "BU" is greatly abused when describing a coin's condition when selling on the Internet. It is unfortunate for those of us that do have have grading experience yet want nices coins for their collections.

I am a rather new collector having found an old Whitman penny album that I had as a kid many years ago. It spurred my interest and now I am into proof sets, which I could never afford when younger.

I talk my local coin dealers head off but I don't want to make a pest of myself. This forum is great for asking those burning questions that come up on occasion.

Thanks again !! Your people are really great !!!

Jim

[coppercoins]

I believe I should chime in on this subject.

On occasion I will use the term BU when describing a cent, even when it's for sale. Many times I will include the grade, but on lesser expensive coins and rolls, I use the term BU to describe coins that are uncirculated and red. They MUST be shiny red to be considered BU. In addition to being used as a general term to mean a red uncirculated coin, BU is also typically used in the following manner:

BU (brilliant uncirculated): MS60RD - MS61RD
ChBU (choice brilliant uncirculated): MS62RD - MS64RD
GEM BU (gem brilliant uncirculated): MS65RD - MS66RD

anything above 66 is mentioned strictly by grade.

anything red/brown (RB) or brown (BN) MUST be termed as either "unc" or strictly by grade, as BU no longer applies.

[SteveAZ]

First, I would like to say WELCOME TO COPPERCOINS!!!!
I am a "newbie" to the hobby/obsession and I have gained a great deal of knowledge from the people here. I may not post that much but thats cuz I spend all my time reading the great posts here.
Second, You said you contacted the seller and they were willing to refund the money. Sounds like you found a good seller online. Not many people are as honest as this person unfortunately.
Now, to my point, I have purchased several BU and PR Lincolns in my quest for a complete BU/PR RD collection and I have a few coins with small black spots on the reverse. All of which are from the late 70's and Early 80's. This might be a problem with that series of dates.

[Mark]

Seeing a coin described as "BU" took me back to when I was a kid and collecting in the 1960s. At that time, dealers did not use a numeric grading scale. Most mint state coins were graded and sold as "BU" or "UNC." BU was generally considered a better grade. Once in a great while you'd see another adjective added, for instance "gem BU" but that was uncommon. In the 1960s there was not a huge premium paid for a higher quality BU coin--basically a coin was BU (or UNC) or it was AU. When I returned to collecting in the mid 1990s, I was a bit surprised to see the BU term replaced with MS. The numeric grading scale also took some getting used to. But, all things considered, I much prefer collecting nowadays to the truly wild and wooly days back in the 1960s!

Mark

[Bob P]

Too true Mark. The 'older' days did indeed leave a lot to the imagination while trying to grade coins. For the longest time, some of the coins listed as BU were actually horrible looking specimens. I guess that's why I though BU stood for 'BUTT UGLY'. In todays numismatics, some dealers are still trying to pass them off. The reasons for a forum like this becomes much more apparent now. Hopefully, we can prevent someone from falling victim to those unsavory characters.

Bob P