Woodgrain colors and the 1909-s Indian

fivecents · New Member

Why do 1909-S Indian cents in the UNC grade usually come with an ugly woodgrain looking color ? This seems typical for that date in UNC.

GarryN · Expert Member

Welcom to Coppercoins fivecents.

I believe the wood grain finish is caused by the way the planchets were prepared. The finish can also be see on the 1909 S VDB and the 1909 S/S Lincoln. You think the woodgrain finish is ugly? Youre the first Ive heard to say that. Here is a photo of my Unc 1909 S Indian mint mark, It has the woodgrain finish and I love it. However, that finish causes the coin to be graded red brown. The red ones are very coveted. Mine is ms64rb. I do not complain, ever!

http://home.comcast.net/~g.naples/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-1083547.html

coppercoins · Site Admin

I'm not particularly fond of the wood grain look if it is strong, but a mild wood grain appearance can actually help a coin along a bit.

I'm with Garry both in welcoming you to the site and in thought that the wood grain is impurities in the alloy composition of the bronze.

fivecents · New Member

Thanks for the welcome. Smile

I hope to learn alot here.

I know most of the UNC 1909- S indians have a different surface look compared to the other dates.
This date has a high basil value and seems to be the best value in the UNC grades compared to the circulated grades. Greysheet shows the XF40 grade bid at $385 and MS60 only bids at $530. That is only a $145 difference for a 20 point grading difference.

shylock · New Member

It must have taken the SF Mint a couple of years to get use to minting small cents, woodgrain really is the norm with 09-S's. Both years are known for weak strikes on the 1st few feathertips, especially 08-S, so the planchets may have also been a little harder than anticipated.

Most of the collectors of red IH's shy away from woodgrain, but it can add to the beauty of some 09-S's:

http://apps.heritagecoin.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=328&Lot_No=5391&src=pr

Poorly mixed planchets can be found on many copper-nickel small cents (FE & IH). It's also common on some of the key dates from the 1870's due to the bronze coins they resorted to melting (though it didn't have the strawlike color that the SF Mint woodgrain has). It makes finding a true full red 1872 virtually impossible.

shylock · New Member

PS: some wild woodgrain on an S-Mint Lincoln:

http://www.coingallery.org/1909SvdbNGC.html

GarryN · Expert Member

That is an awesome coin, shylock. I saw that coin somewhere before. I would love to own it. The colors are magnificent.

Gabe · Senior Member

Here is a late wheat cent is the woodgrain effect.

GarryN · Expert Member

Thats interesting Gabe, Ive never seen the woodgrain effect on so late a date cent.

Gabe · Senior Member

Yeah I know Garry. When I saw at the dealer's I knew that it was a pretty late date to have a woodgrain. I bought it and put it at ebay (starting at 99c) but no one bid. Its an interesting piece, and Ill think Ill keep it.

I also thought that it could be some weird tonning on the coin that caused the horizontal lines, but that doesnt explain why the reverse also has the lines. Any ideas?

GarryN · Expert Member

If it truly is woodgrain toning, then there was something wrong with the alloy composition of the coin. That would explain why the toning occurred on both sides. It is interesting.