In regards to Cathy's 2007 Silver Eagle

[coop]

I find many proofs do move. I usually looks for the ones with the single image. They are harder to find in my experience. The frosting of the cameo hids doubled dies and strike doubled. so I prefer to check the pre-all cameo coins. I feel strike doubling ruins a coin for me. So I don't get excited about them except for educational purposes. I guess when I do look at current coinage, I pick the best high grade coins to set aside. The rest of the regular coins I put back to work, doing what they were made to do.

[notabot]

I thought the 57 was a machine double. Is that technically the same as shelf doubling, and I think maybe thats the last question on doubling.
You guys are sure helpful.
Until the next question...
Notabot...

[Dick]

ED, and others, It could be that the QC, (quality control), is much more "effective" in the case of proof, as opposed to business strikes. Then there is a case if "semantics", and the confusion in therms, that makes it difficult to be more precise,in the terminalogy. I have used "shelf-0doubling, with machine doubling, which I belioeve to be the same thing. Strike doubling is not the same, as it is something that happens when there are "multiple strikes, (as in our older process in minting coins). T he current "single squeeze", is what it implies, just one "hit There is another term that I have used, and I'm not too sure if it is correct. Maybe someone could clarify. I refer to "flat-field doubling". I believe it to be what we see when there is a lateral displacement, due to die erosion, sich as I think is the case on a cent that shows the "movement towards the center of the coin, on the date, and tha same lateral movement on the word "liberty", again toward the center. It is also notaable on the first "T" in trust, again towards the center. The coin is a 1984-D, on about AU-50. Lets see if this works: I sent photos form another unit, IM, and copied them for the forum.



didn't work with IM, but email did.
Dick

[coop]

Dick: I see that a lot. It looks like the copper plating moved or the die is showing wear. What ever it is it is common. I save extreme example for educational pieces. You see some weird stuff in circulation.
We are looking at things through a microscope, but the mint view stuff we find/collect as as part of the normal process. They don't look as closely as we do.

[eagames]

I'd agree with Coops terminology, the 57-D should be called machine doubling. (it looks like a shelf)

Dick, the term "single squeeze" is for modern die making (not coin making). They make the dies using single squeeze instead of multiple hubbings. I don't think there ever (in a long time)was a change in the coin striking process, they (by intent) single strike the bus strikes and use multiple strikes on proof coins and I think they did it that way for a long time.

Some coins like the 83 are probably caused by the plating moving or something not tight allowing chatter or on some coins from die wear. That's my guess but once I decide somethings not a doubled die I don't ponder it much more.

Good to see you back online Dick

[Dick]

Coop, ED hi to you both! It has been a while, but like a common cild, you will never quite get rid of me! Ed, I thought the actual minting process was the "single-squeeze", as opposed to the old way of doing it. I knew the proof coins were, (are) multiple strikes, for detail, as opposed to the business strikes. I was not aware that it actuallt occured in the die hubbing process. I guess I'll have to read the "plaid book" again!
Coop, I was pointing out the wat the "false outline was moved towards the center of the coin, as opposed to the lateral movement in the same direction. Yes, I see a lot of that (last movenent laterally, all in same direction), and many times so clear, that one can see it with a small power glass, or even with the naked eye, (one a whole lot better than mine)!
Yes,it is good to be back, It gives my aching abck a rest! I hope you folks can read the text, because many times I look at a key, and end up with another letter than the one expected! My "central vision is very bad, now. Bad enough that I cannot drive any more. The Dr. said my vision , at best with correction would be less than 20/200. My peripheral vision is not affected, so I am not eligible for a white cane. I have always been an excellant speller, but when I proof-read my post, I sure doubt it! Even then a lot gets by, because of the missing parts. Not to worry, I have a daughter who dedicates her spare time to her "Mom, and and Dad", in case we need something.
Diock

[notabot]

In an interesting word play, Numismatic News calls the newly discovered 1982 cent hub doubling, which confused me at first, but then reading these posts made it all so very clear. Doubled Die is a nuanced term, and varies according to the expert you are talking to about it.

[eagames]

The word hub doubling and doubled die mean the same thing. It means a double image caused by doubling on a die, they call it hub doubling because dies are made by squeezing the hub onto them. (all coins made with the hub doubled die are identical coins of the same doubled die) There are 9 different types of hub doubling. The 9 types don't include double strikes or mechanical or abrasion doubling because those things are not hub doubling/doubled dies like the 9 types listed below.

This is from an old post but I tried to list the 9 types of real doubled dies, these are all the types of hub doubling:

[smed]

[eagames]

yep!

If it's a doubled die it's one of the 9 types listed or it's something else. (other than hub doubling / doubled die)

Another detail....

A coin we call a doubled die is a coin that came from a "doubled die".

It does make rock solid sense when you see it that way.

Other types of doubling like strike doubling come from a normal not doubled die striking the coin more than once. Abrasion doubling comes from a worn regular die.

The rule is doubled die coins are made by "doubled dies".

[notabot]

EA Games, thanks for the summary post on doubled dies. Your information is concise. Especially, it is demonstrative of the essential elements of communication.
First, it welcomes the reader.
Second, it is written so as not to alienate the reader with unwelcome negativity.
Third, it thoroughly covers the topic.
Further, it consolidates as much information as is available elsewhere into one spot on the board...a welcome use of indexing with relevance. By reading your post, I was spared the need to search the index proper for my answers.
Once again, thank you for the insightful post.
Others could learn volumes about warm and harmonious interpersonal relations from your writing style, as well as much about our hobby.

[smed]

Some people call 'em as they see 'em. Also, not everyone can write flowing prose.

[notabot]

bump for cause.

[GarryN]

[coop]

Ed: Put some pictures of each class and then you would make it even more educational.