1997 D DDR.??

RC · Member

Looking thru Lincolns last night, I found a 1997d that appears to have trails running North East from E Pluribus Unum.. Of course I checked CC for the variety but it is not listed.. Try to get a pic up after while..

Rc

Steven · Expert Member

Might check here

http://www.1793.com/resources/traildies/traildies.htm

eagames · Expert Member

Just adding...

That coin has reverse die trails, it's a keeper. Trails are not doubled dies and are still a bit of a mystery.

I don't think any trail coins are listed on the site unless they also are doubled dies.

coop · Expert Member

I guess I'm gonna have to turn my screen to see it. Looks light, but maybe BJ will add some imput on it. I've never found one yet. I find a lot of gas bumps under the plating, but no trails yet.

coppercoins · Site Admin

The listing system used on this site is for die varieties only...at the moment. I am working on a way that I can also incorporate varieties and other anomalies into the mix, but for now it's only die varieties. This die would not be listed here by design...it's not a die variety.

I do agree that it shows some sign of having 'trails', but I am not yet sure what causes them. To be quite frank, I have had too many other irons in the fire to care as of yet. So much to do with die varieties, these other subjects haven't yet really crossed my mind.

BJ is the one who has done the most studying and writing on this particular subject.

wavysteps2003 · Expert Member

It is a trail die and akin to wavy steps with the only difference between the two being the direction the lines take and the design elements affected.

With the blurring of what is an error and what is a variety and the seemingly difference of opinion on which is which and when they occur, I do classifiy trails and wavy steps as a die anomaly. These lines or deformaties remain with the die from begining to end of the die's life. It is however, not a doubled die since the design element is not duplicated, but rather extended, making it distinctly different from a double die.

I would like to see this die if at all possible for I am fairly sure that it is a new discovery and one that can be added to my DEO/DER files. I can be reached at the following e-mail address; wavysteps2003@aol.com.

BJ Neff

Bob P · Site Admin

BJ...
Would it be possible for the statue to be a part of a trails die?
I have a 1999P coin which has trails that run in two directions. I know this is not uncommon, but the trails seem to run north from the top of the statue. This I haven't seen before (if in fact it is trials)

RC · Member

Thanks, always great info here.! I believe I was confusing the 2006 DDO with trails listed here on CC.. Lol, Im a newbie.! What can I say...

Bj, I tried your site & unfortunately, my computer is to slow.!
I will be contacting you shortly..

Rc

wavysteps2003 · Expert Member

Bob and RC - having a time posting. Will respond when I get home.

BJ

RC · Member

Bj, I sent you an e-mail.. Also, I found a '99 that has much stronger trails in the same location, except they run north east. I Haven't took pics yet.! Ill try to get a few soon.

Rc

RC · Member

Heres a pic of the '99..

wavysteps2003 · Expert Member

I am hampered by the fact that I can not access my files (got to get my daughter to use HS), so if you can do me a favor and send both examples, it will help.

Thanks,
BJ Neff

wavysteps2003 · Expert Member

While I do have the time, I thought that I would answer Bob's questions.

Actually, dual direction trail dies are not that common, however, they are logical in the formation. Out of the five or six that I do have, all of them are reciprocal (except one), meaning that the directions are 180 degrees apart. The cause of the movement, thermal warping (expanding), will cause the die to move in one direction; when thermal warping stops, a lose of energy (thermal) will cause the warping to reverse and the die will try to retain its form position (contracting). Ideally, this should be in the opposite direction when the die contracts and most are, however, there is one die that is the exception with 120 degrees seperation from the two directions that the trails have taken. Even still, this can be explained as an errant cooling that causes the contarcting phase to take a different path. Why do we not see more dual direction trails? I believe that most of the time the die is still in the expansion stage when contact from the hub face to die face is broken.

As to the statue of Lincoln being affected by trails, "Yes", it can be. Take this example that I recently found on Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190210814422

The distortion to the staue is quite evident, making Lincoln appear as if he were a "deep sea diver". I have another that I have nicknamed "the Hunchback of Notre Dame" for its resemblance to that classic figure. If you have trails in and around one or the other URNS (POSTS), then you will more than likely see distortion to Lincoln's statue.

Now for Bob's die. Yes, the statue does show some distortion and it is a trail die, however, in this case, I do not believe the two are related. Still, I would like to see this die to make sure what it is we are seeing.

BJ Neff

Bob P · Site Admin

Thanks for the explanations BJ. Looks like this coin will be one with the two different trails neither 120 or 180 degrees apart. Looks closer to 90. I do not see any trails in or around the urns, but I just may not be seeing them. I will send this one along with the EDS 1999P-1DER-015WS when you get back home.

RC · Member

Jeff
Excellent job.!! I haven't had much time this week & was about to write you this afternoon to make sure you got the coins. When I checked the mail I found they have already been returned to me with your (excellent) attribution letter.. Anyhow, just wanted drop a line to say thank you very much..

Cp