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 RhubarbSenior Member
Posts: 856
Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Location: West Georgia
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 Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:22 pm |
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I found this tonite. I'm pretty sure it's the one. Now I need to find the DDR 
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 cnladueVeteran Member
Posts: 257
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Location: sacramento
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 9:12 pm |
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please tell me this is not doubling only thickness?
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 eagamesExpert Member
Posts: 3013
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:12 pm |
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 DickExpert Member
Posts: 5780
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Location: Rialto, CA.
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:30 pm |
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Carol, I can't see well enough to be positive, but It does seem to have some separation at the top of several letters.
BTW, I received a package from you, today. Thank you so very much! Tell me what I can send you in return.
Dick
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RhubarbSenior Member
Posts: 856
Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Location: West Georgia
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:38 pm |
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Ed,
Do you have a picture of the Die #2? I only look for the coins that are listed here on CC. There are no marker's on this Coin so I would assume that it's a LDS than the one listed.
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RhubarbSenior Member
Posts: 856
Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Location: West Georgia
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:35 pm |
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I'm not sure. The IGWT does have separation but It appear's that the Die is either abraded or deterioation. I can't confirm this one. Thank's.
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 coopExpert Member
Posts: 3402
Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:26 am |
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David: I've been watching this thread for a while now and I took out a 1982-P that I had and compared it to your images. I thought in the first set of images the E on WE seems extra wide on the lower. But the rest seemed close to normal in size for that year. So I kept silent cause I could neither say yes or no on it.
The second set of images show me something that concerns me. It appears you are getting light from two sources. The upper source from your light from your scope. There is a seconday at the bottom also. Probably from sunlight or a light in you room. Place the coin under you scope again and try this: Put the coin in normally under the scope and see if you see the secondary light source? Then cup you hands around the bottom of your scope to see if there is a secondary light source and see what direction it is coming from. After you find the direction it is coming from fasten a piece of tape on a facial tissue and tape it to block the unwanted light. You don't need that there all the time, just when you are taking images. This is the way I remove unwanted light from a room or a window that interfers with images while I'm taking photos.
What can happen the light coming from two different angles can make something appear that is not really there. It makes things look wider, create shadows that are really nothing. I would like to see images with the secondary light removed and the direction of light at 12:00 (Which your scope does.) This way I can take images of the whole letters such as IN, GOD, TRUST (Three images or three letters such as LIB or another combination to see what width the letters are. I can crop them on the edges of your images and mine to do an overlay and see if they are wider/spread/die wear/normal. That would help. I check for an example That I have and found only one 1982 P. The example I have is a toned BU, but looks to be EDS/MDS. Yours looks like a LDS/VLDS. But something I've noticed about the coins made for that year is this: They all show extreme wear on the devices. Possibly the hubs were extremely worn on your coin and mine. Even thought the details on my coin is very nice, you can still the wear slightly. So if you could do this, it might help to determine if this is normal or not. If you could email these, I'll try to get to them as soon as possible.
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Richard S. Cooper
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cnladueVeteran Member
Posts: 257
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Location: sacramento
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 2:01 pm |
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does a worn hub make the letters look thicker than they should?I have several 82ps that look thick also and I always thought it was just normal for that year.
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The opinions that I express do often reflect stupidity.
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RhubarbSenior Member
Posts: 856
Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Location: West Georgia
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 3:02 pm |
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Coop,
It is a second light source as you said. I finally put 2 and 2 together. Thank's. I will get picture without the extra light source later today.
David
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eagamesExpert Member
Posts: 3013
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 3:32 pm |
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RhubarbSenior Member
Posts: 856
Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Location: West Georgia
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:51 pm |
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Updated Photos. I hope the photo's help.
David
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coopExpert Member
Posts: 3402
Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:46 pm |
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| Quote: |
does a worn hub make the letters look thicker than they should?I have several 82ps that look thick also and I always thought it was just normal for that year. |
Die wear does make the letters appear wider. The reason? As the die wears die flow lines appear in the fields. These eventually make the edges of the devices start to disappear and the base of the devices look wider. But if you look closely they make the field and device flow together like a snow drift in later die states (LDS & VLDS) With the crispness gone the device appears to look wider/taller but is really a distorion because of wear. The same wear also can remove real hub doubling from a coin on the outer devices. So the best doubled dies are found in the earlier die states ad the doubling is still crisp. Some doubling like the class one doubled dies seem to last longer into the dies life. On a 1961 DDR I found the outside devices doubling was completely gone. What gave me a clue that it was a doubled die? The EPU still had the doubling there as that area didn't wear as fast as the outside devices.
On David's coin I had an example to compare it with and guess what? The devices that year/mint mark were wider. When I did an overlay and a grid, they were the same size (minus die wear). Just like when you look at 2001-2004 Cents you think: I've found something? But when comparing several examples from the same year/mint mark then you note that they were all made that way. On some dies you find that the hubbing was deeper and that will make them wider, but still normal as they are not a doubled die. Sometimes you will find excessive die cleaning removing the field more, leaving less of the device to shape the devices making it look thinner/shorter. Dies go through a lot, but unless a die started out hub doubled/repunched with separation/a different mint mark applied over an exsisting mint mark, then it is not a variety. A variety starts on the first coin and continues till it is retired with wear on the devices. They never start out normal and become one later. It just doesn't work that way with a true variety. Un like the 1937-D three legged buffalo, 1922 no D these are not true varieties. They are only examples of a over polished/worn die.
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Richard S. Cooper
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RhubarbSenior Member
Posts: 856
Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Location: West Georgia
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 7:09 pm |
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Coop,
Nothing learned = Nothing Gained.
Thank you
David
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eagamesExpert Member
Posts: 3013
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 2:19 pm |
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3 years that always look odd until you see that they all look odd are 1968, 1982 and 2003.
68 are wide on lib and IGWT and the letters hit the rim
82 are wide on lib and IGWT
03 are wide mostly on the date
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Ed
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cnladueVeteran Member
Posts: 257
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Location: sacramento
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 2:27 pm |
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coop you are the BEST explainer! i think 80s are date thick and 62s are almost as bad as 68.
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