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coppercoins.com Forum Index arrow General Discussion - World Copper arrow 1921 Australia Halfpenny with off-center clash

1921 Australia Halfpenny with off-center clash
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KurtS
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:05 am Reply with quote

An Australian collector clued me in on this variety, which I initially attributed to damage/wear.
This coin reminds me of the 1880 Indian Head cent where the denticle pattern was struck in the center of the reverse.
With the IHC, there's speculation the hammer die fell onto the anvil die, while others think it was done intentionally,
possibly to test die hardness.
Whatever the cause may be with this Half penny, it's a very interesting variety! Very Happy




Closeup detail of the clash:
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Dick
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:29 am Reply with quote

hi Kurt, it seems to be slightly rotates CCW. Is it the Epaulaut that(sp) shows? Nice coin!
Dick

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GarryN
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:22 am Reply with quote

That is interesting Kurt. It seems to be a clash from the coat collar maybe? I dont think its the denticles.
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KurtS
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:10 pm Reply with quote

I'm just relaying what Aussies tell me is listed in their variety books (Rennicks). Confused I find the regular spacing of the mark doesn't directly relate to anything on the George V portrait. I have some of these coins in MS state, and I don't see that correlation. There's also the arc to the clash mark, and the regular spacing between the curved features in the clash suggests denticles to me. There, considering the arched "spaces" between the denticles are raised on the obverse die, a clash would make these marks incuse on a off-center clash to the reverse die, which in turn would be transfered in relief on the coin.

All things being equal, I think that would take a lot of force to leave that mark on a hardened steel die. Of course, something similar did happen on the 1880 IHC.

Here's a photo and attribution of this coin by an Australian collector. (his coin)
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Robert
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:52 pm Reply with quote

Interesting variety. If this was on a Morgan dollar, I bet it would be in the top 100 VAMs because it's so easy to identify.

I can see how it looks like denticles but that would be some strange contact angle to make those marks. It could, I suppose, be making contact with a die of another denomination (like a florin or a sovereign). The way to find out would be to take precise measurements and calculate some sort of radius of curvature. That may not tell what die hit this one but it would sure eliminate many possibilities.

To my knowledge, 1921 Aus pennies were struck in Australia (Melb or Syd) using either "London" or "Calcutta" dies. It would be interesting to see which dies have this variety.

My "Guidebook and Catalogue of British Commonwealth Coins 1660-1969" lists seven diagnostics for determining whether it's a "London" or "Calcutta" die.

London:
177 beads on obverse;
Last stroke of "N" in "OMN" aligned between beads;
"O" of "OMN" closer to orb and cross;
Colon after "N" in "OMN:" is aligned under one bead;
Last stroke of "R" in "BRITT" is short;
First pearl under orb of crown is large and firmly attached to orb;
Curved top ridge of crown under pearls is short.

Calcutta:
178 beads;
Last stroke aligned under one bead;
"O" is farther from orb and cross;
Colon aligned between beads;
"R" is long and curved;
Pearl is smaller and spaced from orb;
Top ridge is long and curved.


Another possibility would be if Melb/Syd mints made coins for other countries etc in 1921.

Thanks for posting that pic!
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KurtS
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:05 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
1921 Aus pennies were struck in Australia (Melb or Syd) using either "London" or "Calcutta" dies

Yes, there are a few varieties for the 1921 Penny, with the London obverse the rarer coin. This however is the Halfpenny, which was only minted in Sydney for 1921.

I agree--this would be interesting to research further. There is at least one precedent for off-center/off-axis die clashes on US coins (the 1880 IHC), so I have to wonder how this particular die became so blundered, and whether this is possible on press? Perhaps a MS grade coin of this variety would provide more clues.

Btw, I just heard from an Australia collector that "I would go with option A (hammer die fell), as it makes further sense when considering this effect is found on up to 4 other positions on the reverse of the 21 half pennies."
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Dick
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:23 pm Reply with quote

Could the blank, or planchet,have been hit by an object with the same curvatue, but with teeth, as in gear, or sprocket? Curious.
Dick

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KurtS
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:39 pm Reply with quote

Dick,
What--planchets hit in exactly the same spot numerous times? This is a documented die variety with numerous examples, yet "rare" in Rennicks variety guide. You know this works for US coins, right? Very Happy I only know this stuff because I spend a lot of time talking to Aussie collectors.
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KurtS
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:51 am Reply with quote

Steven sent me this great overlay which seems to corroborate a denticle clash with the obverse die--thanks! Very Happy

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