Question for Bob about DDO class

[eagames]

Bob,

Looking at that 95-D 1DO-004 gave me a question.

I can see why it's a class 2. Wouldn't the same class 2 doubling explain the wide U of trust and wide horizontal lines of the letters?

So my question is what makes it also class 6?

[Bob P]

That is a very good question Ed. A class 2 doubled die will show doubling/separation toward the center or rim. This is seen on the TY of LIBERTY and the 19 of the date. We can not say that the extra thickness that shows on the motto is a result of the class 2 because there are no separation lines visible. In order to account for the extra thickness that shows, we have to assign a class 6 as well. Had even a small part of the motto showed the doubling/separation, it would have been a class 2 alone. One other thing on this particular coin...note where the class 2 separation lines are. They are on some of the more interior elements, not the devices closer to the rim. This is another reason why the motto has no doubling...those areas were not affected by the class 2, but another distorted hubbing probably brought about the extra thickness. I hope this answered your question... if not, I'll give it another try.

[eagames]

Thanks Bob!

Make sense.

[Dick]

Bob, another question: Is that the reason that one can see the "shadow towards the rim? Note the"sort of shadow, or whatever you call it, above each of the devices in the motto. Is that what you call class2 doubling, or is it the separation on the actual letters? I'm confused, (as if you didn't know)!

It is the "wiping effect" that you see above the letters in the motto, that has me curious. I have several coins withis effect.

Dick

[eagames]

Dick,

I'll try before Bob answers.

Notice that the one you posted 1DO-003 is a class 5 DDO.
Class 5 DDOs pivot on the exact center point so all the doubling goes CCW and no movement to or from the rim.

The doubling you see going towards the rim above the motto is unrelated to the coin being a doubled die, it's from something else. Not sure what exactly causes it but's it's not hub doubling.

[Bob P]

Very well done Ed. Dick, the 'shadow' doubling you see on the pic is strike related. I am not exactly sure what caused it either.

[Dick]

Thank you, Gentlemen! I "lifted "that shot from the site to make the point. I will , (hopefully) re-locate one, or some of the coins I have with that effect, and check to see if they might be doubled, as the picture shows.
Ed, I didn't think it would be hub-doubling, either. My problem , now, is learning to distinguish the different classes of doubling. I am going to make a collection of the classes, and photos that identify each class individually. Then I "might" remember which is which.
dick

[wavysteps2003]

I believe that the "shadow affect" is from metal flow or the beginning of die deterioration. Notice that it is radial in direction, which is one of the clues when looking at die deterioration doubling.

It just get back to the amount of atoms that are lost in a particular spot on the die face due to the flow of copper over that one area. Once a weakness is found on that die face the continuous off and on flow of metal over that spot will strip atoms at a faster rate than a spot without weakness. What this amounts to is the lines seen on the coin, the striping away of the atomic surface area on the die's face, that leaves a grove, which will be seen as a raised are on the coin.

BJ Neff.

BJ Neff

[coppercoins]

BJ is correct - it's die wear.