1935 Canadian Cent

[KurtS]

On a VF George V cent, the upper and lower crown bands are worn to the level of 7,8 pearls so the pearls, surrounding field and crown bands are on the same level--but the central diamond will still show all 4 edges. The tricky part about XF coins is that a weaker strike or any knocks can easily affect prominence of pearls 7,8. As shown below, there's a knock on pearl 7, but I see band separation and pearl 8 are still distinct at the high point. Coupled with the overall luster, I find this coin merits an XF.

Since I sell a lot of these coins to Canadians, the point to my persistence here is to reassess my grading standards and see if they hold up to established methods. As a further check, I ran this coin by a few Canadian collectors; their grade was XF-gXF. Thanks for all your input!

[Bob P]

I'm sure glad you guys are having fun with this, but I have no idea what you are talking about since I don't deal at all with Canadian coinage. I just wanted to show what I considered a nice find in Florida of a 1935 Canadian cent. As far as accepting Canadian grading standards as being more stringent than our own, I certainly buy into that. The discussion here is very interesting and educational for me, but overall, it is just going into a folder with all the other Canadian cents I have found in my searches. As I said before, this is the only date pre-1940 that I have found here on Canadian cents. All of the other dates, post 1940, right up to 2007, I have managed to find here. Not bad for Florida. Thanks for the education guys!

[KurtS]

I apologize if my grading discussion dominated this thread; it's a series I collect and sell. Again, it's a very nice find for circulation!

[eagames]

Kurt,

What is gXF?

[KurtS]

[Bob P]

Kurt,
You certainly do not need to apologize for what you have posted here. As I stated, I have found it very educational, and hopefully others have also. I encourage the continuation of this sort of discussion. If you collect, grade and sell this series, then this is a place for you to discuss your views. There is nothing wrong with that. It is also nice to know that there is another common thread between some of our members. I know nothing of Canadian coinage, but it is obvious others do. Don't stop the education because others may not see eye to eye. It is but another benefit we all gain from this forum. Thank you!

[Dick]

Kurt, thanks for showing me how they grade, "up there". I did not know which were the "7,& 8" pearls. I just go by the highest poimnt, and the, (7& sre as near the hightest point as anywhere else, beside the diamond is the highest, I believe. My vision preclides my grado=ing a higher grade, and I imagine all my "grades" will be bit lower tthan actual.


Bob, BTW, they don't grade tyhe reverse, generally. It is all about the portrait. I imagine you will get to see a lot more of these, due to the changes coming, and; the fact that so many of us are turning to the small cents first, and branching out. The general cost of the item is much lower than ours. They have a few more things that tthey also place a value on, that we do not. So it will be a "more, and more" thing. the ease with which the Canadian cents sirculate here is another factor that enhances the collecting of them. I'll send you some pre-40's, so you will "get used to them"
Dick

[KurtS]

Dick,
All I've read on Canadian coins puts secondary importance on the reverse, which often has lower-profile designs more subject to strike issues. Therefore, I suspect the RCM's priority was to preserve the integrity of the effigy, leaving everything else secondary, thereby establishing the obverse as the grading standard amongst collectors. Of course, coins which are well-struck front and back have more collector value, even if the net grade may be similar.

By contrast, Australian grading is often more balanced because many predecimal reverses have more complex designs. This mostly applies to their "Advance Australia" seal on silver coinage, and George V pennies/halfpennies are still graded primarily by the portrait. A well-struck reverse doesn't help the obverse grade, but a problem reverse can certainly strike down the net grade.

[Dick]

Kurt, I agree. There are some that I have seen, and have in hand, for that matter, that have a very nice obv, and the reverse is even better. Others have a very nice rev, and the Portrait has some dings, which really knocks down the grade. I have read Charltons catalogue, re the grading, and it leaves a lot of wonder, as to just where the line is, in some cases, and is very clear in others. The Link you posted, is one that I like to use,because it has excellent photos to use for comparison, and other than a few minor questions, in particular, the numbering of the pearls,. I didn't know which ones were what number, so there always a boubt as to which they referred to. did you get this from the Aussies? I don't recall seeing it in print, in the canadian ppublications, or I just missed it if it is.
Dick

[smed]

I've always been a pretty tough grader, especially when I'm looking to buy. It's saved me a good bit of money at times, but then there are the times when I don't listen to myself and forget "if it seems to good to be true, it is". I was not trying to say anything about anybody's grading, and I haven't had the experience selling to Canadians as I steadfastly refuse to ship anything out of the country ever again. My personal interpretation of grading standards has caused some conflict in the past, but that was not my intent here. Ever.

[KurtS]

Smed,
I appreciated your views on the grade, and it prompted me to do my own "reality check" and reassess how I graded Canadians. I've recently focused on George V Australian coins, so this coin was a good cross-grading exercise as Australian grading criteria apply here equally well (link is a pdf)

It's also interesting to note how each country has a different level of die detail that translates into their own criteria for grading as well as attributing varieties. As Dick and other collectors can attest--die varieties for Canadian coins have a much finer level of detail than most US varieties. The same holds true for Australian coins, where one has to look for nearly microscopic dots and denticle alignments of letters to determine mintmarks and die pairings.

One interesting exception is the 1916-I Australia halfpenny mule which paired an obverse die for the Indian Quarter-Anna with an Australia halfpenny reverse. Both coins were minted in Bombay India in 1916, and at some point the press must have been switched to produce halfpennies and the Indian obverse die was initially overlooked. Pictured below, the obverse has notable differences in the legend where the Indian obverse also includes an elephant in the regalia of the portrait (arrow). This variety was first discovered in 1965 and so far only 7 have been found. Given the slight differences, I suspect more have been disseminated into collections over the past decades and I wouldn't be surprised if one turns up in the US, as I've found other scarce varieties here. That said, this particular variety is extremely rare and is valued at over $40,000 in any grade. While it's a complete longshot, I always check for this coin at shows. I'm such an optimist

[Dick]

Kurt, that is a very interesting coin. mule, if you will. i am not used to seeing a lot of these different types, and when one like this pair show, I feel very lucky, in having seen them, albeit in photos. Keep up the 'leg-work, Kurt, some one with a p[ositive outlook, may gety VERY lucky! Lets hope it is you!
Dick