Australia 1956 Penny DDR

[KurtS]

Here's an Australian Penny which I've tentatively identified as a doubled die reverse, although I'm unsure which class of doubling this would be.

There are a few interesting details, such as where the "doubled tops of STR (see photo) are nicely aligned, yet there's a dramatic offset at the bottoms of the letters.
Perhaps the tops are only MD? I particularly like that ghost K above the designer's K.G

[eagames]

I'm thinking the same, the tops of STR look like strike doubling but the rest of it looks like it might be a wide spread doubled die.

I'm not certain, the rest has such a wide spread you'd think it would be known. Could be a double strike? (not strike doubled)

Also the denticles look strange, is it normal to have that pattern of denticles with narrow bars in between?

[KurtS]

Interesting thought! If this were a double strike, should we expect to see a more consistent secondary image, since the die to planchet are roughly parallel upon striking? For instance, would I expect to see both letters of the designer's initials doubled vs only the "K"? Shouldn't the date be doubled as well? I'd like to learn more...I've posted some additional details below. Yes, the denticles are normal; Australia used several types on their predecimals.

By contrast, I recall reading where Australian penny die blanks have a strong convex mating surface prior to hubbing, which might explain how doubling appears in a fairly narrow perimeter on this coin? I don't know the mechanics, so perhaps an expert here can help me understand. As a cross-reference, here's a detail from a well-known DDO on the AUS 1962 Penny--look at that offset!



A close-up of the date:



One more detail showing anomalies in the roo not present on my other '56 pennies. It sure helps this coin is a higher grade.

[coop]

Could some of the lower marks on the letters be die clash marks? They don't seem to line up much with the devices from the die? An overlay might help. But both images aren't there of the obverse and reverse, also the alignment of the dies? Like US Coins or medal alignment?

[KurtS]

Coop-
I agree there are some anomalies in the secondary markings, although I don't exactly know what to expect from a Aus DDR vs a clash--obviously, I should do an overlay to get some insight here. I do see some correlation to shapes in the KG, star, roo, and several letters pictured, such as S, L, and PE in PENNY. I'll mull this one over further...thanks for helping my brain work harder!

[KurtS]

As an update, an experienced collector in Australia did an overlay and could not get the marks to match a die clash. His conclusion is a strongly doubled die--but I'm still going to check this out further. Thanks for all your comments!

[Dick]

kurt, I had the same impression, that Coop had. A
clash, but at the same time I also thought a die crsck on the lower area of the letters might be possible. I can't rule out the doubling, even tho it is very wide. nice shots of a nice coin!
Dick

[daggit]

Well of course I wouldn't have a clue but I like it anyway Kurt.

[KurtS]

Here is my overlay. I re-shot the coin to ensure the scale between obverse/reverse was very close. Fortunately, two denticles almost exactly align obv/rev--the result should be fairly accurate:



Obverse as reference for devices:

[KurtS]

Judging from the last overlay, a die clash seems unlikely, but what about a DDR? Can an overlay confirm the positions of these secondary features? To that end, I've created one more overlay using the same reverse photo without speculating on distortions which may happen in a double-hubbing--only rotation of the secondary reverse image. Here I see many consistencies to these marks on this coin.

Take a close look, keeping in mind that the secondary marks are doubled too. I've also included a clean reverse image if anyone would like to create their own overlay.

[KurtS]

Here's one additional note on die production by an Australian collector on another site. If you're familiar with the Aus 1d 1933/2 "overdate," it's interesting to note how that was creating by hubbing of dies for two dates--and not the "classic" overdate scenario seen on 19C. coins.

[eagames]

I lean towards your original thought, it's MD on STR but the rest is a DDR. Still I'm not 100% sure.

The thing that makes me think so is it does seem to line up with a CW rotation and even shows the same on PENNY. (CW means the stronger second image is CW of the partial first image). I might be missing what does not match. Please point it out if you can.

A wild guess, just food for thought.........

The convex die surface might explain why it shows on the outside areas. MAYBE slight chance if the first hubbing was a 1955 hub and they removed the date or last digit from the hub before using it. (or polished any trace of it away from the die before the next hubbing) That might explain it since the doubling only showed near the rim so with the last digit removed it might not show doubling on the date. That's a bit far fetched but MAYBE

[KurtS]