On finding overdates and repunched dates

[KurtS]

Recently, my collecting interest has grown towards finding die varieties such as repunched dates and overdates, and I thought I'd write a brief article on the process I've so far learned to find these coins.

Firstly, I've found that repunched dates are much easier to find than overdates. Relative scarcity is one reason, but with an RPD, the coin often provides its own clear reference for the repunching. Can it possibly get any more obvious than this Indian Head cent?


Here the repunching is obvious, and easily spotted by collectors looking at the date.

However, overdates involve repunching a new date over a previously dated die that's reworked and dated using either punches or hubs, and are consequently much harder to spot since there are no common reference points. Consider this well-known overdate, where the arrow points to the only actual marker of a previous date:



Any guesses as to what this is? This is the 1858/7 Flying Eagle cent, which even in MS grade would be impossible to see unless you know where to look. I find it amazing that an overdate with such minute details is worth over 10X the normal coin in MS grades—but a lot of collectors want this coin. Therefore, given the money involved, I think it's important that collectors only buy such overdates that are authenticated by experts.

On the far opposite of the experts are collectors like me who simply look for overdates for fun. Recently, I have started looking at Sweden coins because there are a number of overdates from 1906-1916. To that end, it's helpful to have some knowledge of which year/denomination has overdates; it's simply a waste of time to search every year and you're likely to "see" an overdate where there isn't one given an absence of reference on the coin in question.

For instance, Krause lists a 1906/5 overdate for Sweden's 2 ore coin. Knowing that, I ran across this coin at the show, where immediately I saw a little flag on the 6. Below is a shot of the complete date—see what I'm talking about? I think seeing something obvious is the first clue, versus squinting at a coin until your mind plays tricks on you.


The "flag" is quite distinct and is partially at the same relief as the 6. The secondary feature below is lighter but quite distinct under certain lighting angles.

Unfortunately, Krause doesn't show the markers for the 2 ore 1906/5, so I have to do some guesswork here. While overlays of the 5 digit might offer some clues, I find layering photographs can often be confusing. Instead, I traced an approximate outline from a 1905 coin to see if a 5 digit explains what I see. I should note here I drew the digit independently of my coin's features, and follows are two photos, one taken from the pic above, another taken from my QX5.



Another lighting angle from my QX5--it's very useful to study a coin from several angles.



I cannot say for certain this is the 1906/5, but isn't it interesting how a few features appear to line up without much trouble?

[Dick]

Kurt, that is a very intresting article. I appreciate the time you have taken to prepare, and present it. i look forward to reading many more, as time permits.
Dick

[Teryble]

Why & what is the difference between a repunch date & a machine double? These were punched by hand? Very good eye & nice pics too!
Tery

[Russellhome]

Great material. Thanks for posting it.

[KurtS]

[eagames]

Kurt,

I think the main reason is they hide the overdates better because they know the other date was there, polish what they can and punch over it to hide the evidence. RPDs are less planned, no polishing in between. Is that your thought?

Tery,

One differance to me between MD and RPMs, DDOs, DDRs, RPDs, MPDs, Overdates is........

MD is when a normal die bounces and his the coin twice, each coin is different and that same die can make normal coins if it does not bounce. Every MD is different (bounce is different) so we can't ID by die markers (same die might not have it on next coin) and we can't collect by specific dies and nobody can list them since all are different. (might be similar) They don't have catalog prices since each is unique. They often have no extra value and to some are thought of as damaged. They are not die varieties, they are minor errors.

RPMs, DDOs, DDRs, RPDs, MPDs, Overdates are when an error was made when they made the die. Every coin from the die will have the same thing. We can track them by markers, we can list them in catalogs, we can guess a population, we can estimate a value based on pupulation and desireability. They are not errors they are varieties.

Some people in the error world would say all of the above are mint errors, they happened at the mint and were not planned and that is true but I like to split it into "die varieties" and "errors".

Cookies...
An error cookie is when you use the cookie cutter but get off the edge of the dough or you cut it twice or something.
A variety cookie is when your cookie cutter is defective and has a different shape, that shape shows up in every cookie you ever make with that cutter. You can ID any cookie that was made by the defective cutter by the same defect.

I bet you get some other opinions on this one but that's mine LOL

Added...
Tery, yes on older coins they punched the dates by hand onto the dies. On more modern coins they didn't punch the dates but they punched the mintmarks which is why we see RPMs. In recent years around 1990 they stopped hand punching mintmarks so we don't get RPMs after that.

[KurtS]

[coop]

Also machine doubling is pushed. A variety is raised like die scratches. On the first example you can see how the device rises above the field. Machine doubling looks like a step down or distorted/damaged.

[Bob P]

Very well done Kurt. Thanks again for taking the time to put this on here.

[GarryN]

Is that what the 5 would look like on the 2 ore? It looks very much like the 5 in the 1858 cent.

[KurtS]

BobP--thanks! This was a rewarding bit of research for myself too.

Garry, yes it's a close approximation--I traced this digit from a 1905 Sweden coin. It's interesting to note how styles of digits change over time, and those used by Sweden are similar to the IHC digits for 1905, although I'd say stylistically a bit more towards the 19th C.