1909s vdb Fake or Legit???

[ken]

Found this one today guys.What do you think

[eagames]

How did you find it?

[ken]

Looking thru one of the rolls I've been talking about on other threads.Posted some pics of them,24d,several 31s,1914d,higher grade 26s,ect.

[Dick]

I sure hope that "S" is not glued on! There is a good chance it is "legit", due to the feeder arm scrapes on the reverse. Any way you put it, it will make a nice addition to anyones collection!@ Coongratulatuions!
Dick

[eagames]

Can't see the S well enough in the pics.

The V. D . B looks right.

[ken]

Here's a closeup of the S

[eagames]

I think the scans make it hard to see the S, you can tell better in hand.

Pics from the other post.....

The VDB used on P and S cents:



The S used on 1909 cents:



The S you don't want is like this:

[Dick]

Ed, the anyalisis is great, butt I would like to compare several '09-P cents, VDB, and '09-S VDB, VDB dot configuration. That would, to me, give more credence to any coin thatis in this category. They would lend themslves to close scrutiny, and comparioson, which would be basis ofr some conclusions, that could be reiied upon.
Dick

[eagames]

Dick, The dot spacing isn't based on only these coins. If you look in CD's book (original one) on P46 it shows the same. It also shows it in the PCGS grading book.

BUT always use everything, not only one area to decide on any S-VDB being real. There could be fakes that have something correct.

[coppercoins]

Ken - your coin is not legit. Sorry. The S is the wrong size and shape.

[eagames]

To me what might look wrong with the S is the lower serif not being parallel |S| and going so far west sort of like the bad one in my pic. From the scan it's hard to see.

Try getting a bigger pic of the S and of the VDB.


There are also struck fakes, in the PCGS book they show the markers for some. A depression in the rim above the E in WE or a depressed line above the I of IN or a little depression in the SE lower corner of the O of ONE. Of course there probably are others beyond what they listed.

[ken]

Chuck,You are correct.This is a fake.Made by a guy in China.He may have gotten hold of some old dies,who knows.He sells them on feebay as not real. A dealer friend of mine got several different coins(1877 Indian,this coin,some large cents and some $4 stellas he gave me so I can spread pics around to help people not to get taken especially at flea markets for say just a few hunderd bucks.I wanted to make everyone aware of this guys work and be careful and not just buy on a glance.It is only off 1/10th of 1% in weight and if in a holder the average person would probably get taken.It also doesn't have the right sound when you drop it on a table.I didn't want to give it away right away.I'm sure if everyone here had it in hand they would know it was a fake.I'm posting a pic of the 1877 also.It's not as good as you can see.


[IMG]
The last pics of th 09s vdb is legit and is 1 one the ones in my collection.Purchased from Littleton coin company some time ago.

[Dick]

Chuck, would that "S" referred to above, as "the weong soze, and shape", be the one known as the "trumpet-tail? Thanks,
Dick

[Dick]

Ken, you refer to "a guy in Chuina". Are you referring to the info that was posted, or at least a link, to a sizable write-up of a "bust", with extensive coverage of the "minting press, and storage areas for a large nimber od "Products"? I read the write-up, but don't recall where it was. Was it Wikipaedia, by chance? Thanks,
Dick

[eagames]

Something else is the portrait on the fake 1909 has that look of a later year portrait.

The odd thing is why they don't get the S correct, I bet there are some fakes that are better and tougher to tell apart.