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coppercoins.com Forum Index arrow General Discussion - World Copper arrow Iceland 1 Eyrir 1939 3/3

Iceland 1 Eyrir 1939 3/3
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KurtS
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:35 pm Reply with quote

For the Iceland 1939 1 Eyrir, there are 3 varieties: the large 3, small 3 and the large/small 3.
Thanks to a friend, I now have all 3 varieties, including the dramatic large/small repunching pictured below. Very Happy


No arrows or overlays required on this one!
I'll picture the other 2 varieties sometime...
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Bob P
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:23 am Reply with quote

That large 3 is significantly larger that the other digits of the date. Anyone know why the change??
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KurtS
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:20 am Reply with quote

I have an idea why, but nothing conclusive. Confused If you look closely at the underlying "small 3", you'll see how the lower loop almost touches the midpoint of the 3. Perhaps there were concerns that as the die wore, that part of the 3 would get closed up? So I would guess the small 3 was used first, then the large 3 and perhaps a few transitional dies having the 3/3. Confused I'll ask a friend who sent these if he knows for sure.

And, when I post the "small 3" version, you'll see it is noticeably smaller than the 9. Laughing
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Dick
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:33 pm Reply with quote

Kurt, that "small 3", is clearly smaller than the "9". no need to use a loupe. The other 2 pictures will be interesting to see.
Dick

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coop
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:23 pm Reply with quote

To me it appears as a rotated punching of the date on the 39?
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KurtS
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:28 pm Reply with quote

coop wrote:
To me it appears as a rotated punching of the date on the 39?


Rotated...on the 3? Two different sized digit punches. I'll post the large and small 3 sometime, and maybe an overlay too.
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Dick
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:06 pm Reply with quote

I took the image to 12" tall, and the angle of the digit underneath, is very similar to the top, but the size of the "lower digit is smaller, and may be rotated a little. An overlay, using only the "large 3, would show the rotation, and size differential, I believe. Not having a smaller 3 to use, we will have to wait...
BTW, Coop, I finally got the overlays down pat, but ask, if you change the opacity on both images? Also, do you usea number higher than 50%, like 69%, maybe? I havent tried that, yet.
Dick

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coop
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:34 pm Reply with quote

Normally I usually only adjust the top one. But if the images are both nice and proof like, you may adjust what looks best. The final result is what you are looking for. Great your getting it.
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Dick
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:36 pm Reply with quote

It took a while, and I agree, on using the best image. I have only adjusted the rev, and leave the OBV. It waas the best of the two. I imagine you saw my first overlays, that looked halfway decent. The reason I asked about adjusting both, is the lack of clarity, that you have on yours. I also imagine much of that is post-operative work. It is going to come in very handy, in the near future. I am forever indebted to you!
Dick

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KurtS
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:47 pm Reply with quote

Dick wrote:
I took the image to 12" tall, and the angle of the digit underneath, is very similar to the top, but the size of the "lower digit is smaller, and may be rotated a little. An overlay, using only the "large 3, would show the rotation, and size differential, I believe. Not having a smaller 3 to use, we will have to wait...

Your initial judgment on digit size was correct, and if you look closely you'll see the shape of the two digits is different too. This accounts for the impression of rotation. There might be a slight amount, but remember they had to hide the underlying top of the small 3 with the large 3. This is how the Copenhagen mint handled these overdates--they made little effort to polish away the first digits, as the example below shows. Here I have the benefit of seeing all 3 coins, which I'll post later. The collector who provided these also does research for the Iceland National Museum--and shared his knowledge with me. Very Happy

Another example from the Copenhagen mint, a 1939/6 10 Aurar:
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Dick
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:14 pm Reply with quote

Nice! Did the "3" take a hit? I noticed something on it and took it "up", but nothing clear enough to say, for sure. Maybe you can tell, with the coin in hand, (unless it has been returned)?
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KurtS
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:38 pm Reply with quote

Dick,
A hit, can you be more specific? Confused Nothing major to move around contours of the digits. Perhaps you're seeing a shoulder of the underlying digit on the 3's outer right curve near ("3 O'clock") Btw--the pic above is better than a 10X loupe view, these digits are very small! When I supply more pics of the other two varieties, that will clarify things. Hopefully today, but I have several photo projects underway.
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Dick
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:18 pm Reply with quote

The area I refer to, (and it could just be my eyes), is at the front, where the upper, and lower loops go up, and down, to the extreme end.. it looks like it has been bumped, or jammed. like I asid, it coukld just be my eyes. I didn't sleep too well last night, but the post was before, so it wasn't that. will the project(s) be on CCF? If so, I'll be looking for them.... like they say, I'm never too old to learn....
Dick

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KurtS
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:48 pm Reply with quote

Dick, perhaps these photos will answer your question. Smile
I've taken a few more images of the 1939 1 Eyrir varieties:

First the large 3--the scarcest variety with perhaps 3% of 1939 mintage.


The small 3:


The large/small 3


Here is an overlay of the large 3 and small 3 photos. I don't think either die was involved in the large/small 3 variety. The dark arrows show common points of reference.



Finally, here is an animation showing the relationship between the small 3 digit to the small/large 3 variety. The small 3 relates very closely to the underlying small 3 in the small/large variety (arrows). However, the position of the 9 changes slightly. From what I can see, these 2 dies don't relate by digit position or markers such as polish lines.

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GarryN
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:25 pm Reply with quote

I like that Kurt! Thats the first time anything like that has been done here. Very impressive.
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