Canada $1--error or "vise job"?

KurtS · Senior Member

This coin was posted on another forum, and it's generated a bit of discussion. Well, at least me questioning whether a vise and common tools could produce this error, or could it only be made at the mint? The coin is not bent, and the owner says the dimensions match normal $1 pieces. These coins have medal alignment.

What do you think caused this?

Dick · Expert Member

That is one way to catch a "loonie"!

Looks likme a washer was "dropped", or fell into the chamber

Hi Kurt! Nice to see you again!

eagames · Expert Member

It must be my monitor causing an illusion, it looks raised but I'm assuming it's indented?

Like Dick said, looks like a washer.

Smile

jfines69 · Member

There are details of the strike throughout the entire affected area... This leads me to believe that the planchet was damaged prior to being struck!!!
Jim

GarryN · Expert Member

If it was a counterstamp, the obverse would have been affected. I agree with jfines.

But would a strikethru have affected the obverse?

KurtS · Senior Member

Interesting one, huh? Thanks for responding. I guess when collectors saw blurred details under the washer, they assumed it was a vise job. Nobody here thinks this is possible with a vise? The indentation itself doesn't look like it's post-mint to me.

However, I wonder if the washer was a material softer than the planchet, such as rubber, fiber, or plastic? If that fell into the coining chamber, and was struck with the coin, would some details be raised in the indentation, since coin metal could flow (partially) into die features? Confused

KurtS · Senior Member

BTW, Mike Diamond commented on this coin @ the original forum post (CCF): Very Happy

Dick · Expert Member

Thanks for the update. I am glead That Mike, did comment on it. I knew i couldn't be wrong 100% of the time. 99%, yes, but that will change, too, (hopefully).

KurtS · Senior Member

Dick,
And thanks for putting in your experience as a machinist at the other forum. Very Happy

Of course you're right--the force needed to displace that metal would be tremendous. I think a 10lb sledge would make a mark using a tool against an anvil, but we all can imagine the overall result to the coin. Laughing

I'm glad that Mike was so patient to help us figure this out. I'm just trying to give my best guess.

eagames · Expert Member

This reminds me of another error. Check out the 73 IKE dollar in this thread. It was struck through a cent planchet and the dollar and the cent planchet which fell out both are graded. Neat set!

Notice that the IKE still has most of the design even where it was struck through the cent planchet.

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=731925

KurtS · Senior Member

Ed, yeah--that's sure a cool error!
I remember I have this image, that shows some portrait detail under the indent.

eagames · Expert Member

Kurt,

That pic shows it well!
So much detail even where it was struck through the cent plan.

Too bad they didn't find the washer that goes with that Canadian dollar coin Wink

I always thought that Ike was too perfect, the way the cent was right on the portrait. It was either very lucky or some mint worker helped it happen.

Dick · Expert Member

give it your best guess.
You have a "random" cent floating around, waiting for a chance to slip into the coining chamber, so it can join IKE. Now that it has entered, what are the chances of it landing exactly in position, as shown?

You have a room full of machinery, all running at high speed, vibrations everywhere.
maybe it was during the night-shift, when everyone was home, sleeping. The security guard is bored, and wonders what would happen if a cent was put on the planchet to make the IKE. Twisted Evil

"Hmmm, lets see, Idea

I have to push this button to make the machine close the gap. Rolling Eyes

"THUNK"

!

KurtS · Senior Member

Dick, yeah--I wondered what happened there, especially since this was a proof strike. Confused

I'm guessing proof dies were installed on coin presses for business strikes, although adjustments were made to speed and strike pressure? I should read up on how proofs are made.

Dick · Expert Member

Kurt, you could be right. I would think that the machinery, used for Proof coins, would also be used exclusively for this purpose. That would eliminate the extra adjustments for one, or the other type coinage. The only difference, then would be the dies for the denomination chosen.

OT. While running around up there, you might have a chance to cross over to the other side. Then you might check the shops, or bank, to see if they have rolls od large cents. You can be sure that a roll of "Eddies, or Georges', will be cheaper than a roll of "Vickys".
Cheers,