ARE VARIETY COINS UNDER ATTACK?

[wavysteps2003]

I just finished reading the article in COIN WORLD concerning the U.S. Mint's attempts to try and duplicate the doubling found on Gabe's nickel; 2004, 5c, CDDO-001.

On a whole, the article was well written and informative, however, I do take exception to the comments of an error specialist.

"The doubling, which is exceedingly modest, does not detract from the appearance of the coin or impair its spendability".

"Only hobbyist with a high power lens or microscope would ever detect such minor flaws".

I am not to sure what constitues a high power lens; 16 X, 10 X or 5 X. Lets face it, a 10 X is standard for any coin person and it is the power that is used by the grading house to determine the state of the coin. Gabe's nickel has doubling that can be seen with a 3 X lens.

If this power, 3 X, was the standard used, I would estimate that over 60% of the doubled dies and 80 % of the RPMs known today would NOT exist.

This is not the first time that the doubling on 2004, 5c, CDDO-001 has come under criticism. Approximately three months ago, another error specialist basically said the same thing in the same weekly.

Variety coins, like error coins are part of this hobby and comments that tend to degrade a particular aspect of collection tend to be detremental to the hobby on a whole. Thank you for listening.

Robert Neff

[Bob P]

I couldn't agree with you more Robert. Gabe was kind enough to send me a copy of the report, and if it was good for anything...it was good for a little laugh.
But...We shouldn't be surprised that the mint has shunned or tried to belittle Gabe's coin, and we shouldn't be surprised that they deny it can or ever could happen. Those of us who collect varieties know better. We have seen these denial letters before. We have seen their inability to duplicate errors and varieties before. So...the short answer to your question 'Are variety coins under attack?' is basically NO! It is the same high level BS that has happened time and time again. Will it keep us from looking? I don't think so. We know they are out there. We see and discover them on a near daily basis.
In my humble opinion...this doesn't detract from the hobby, but only encourages us more.
I don't need to have the mint verify anything I have found in order to appreciate what I have, and to know as a collector, that even though the mints quality control procedures are supposed to be good...they're not so good as to catch or explain everything that comes out of their buildings.

[Gabe]

Yeah, a couple of variety specialist have attacked the doubling from the 2004 nickel as calling it minor. Fivaz's first comments when he was sent pictures was that it shows 'minor' doubling in the date area. And after a couple of months, he adds its to the FS system. Look at that!! lol

Anyways, the mint's denial does not affect the coin hobby at all. As Bob said, it probably encourages people to loook for what is not supposed to happen.

[wavysteps2003]

It is really not the Mint that worries me, it is the comments of the specialist that do. Gabe's nickel and my 2004, 1c, doubled die obverse/reverse opened a lot of peoples eyes to the fact that single squeeze doubled dies do exsist. There were plenty of pictures in both Coin World and Numismatic News to show everyone that these doubled dies were not by any means minor as stated by some and yet, almost a year after their respective discoveries, some still persist in down grading what they truely are, a major discovery. What more can I say.

Robert Neff

[pennyhound]

wavysteps2003

Remember the one that stated: Radiation will not harm you?

(ref. to the government)

Or, naaa that isn't worth anything ... ignorence is no excuse ...

Or, one person's trash is another person's treasure ...

We all know better now ... and thy to come around given enough time ... (then again, some never do) don't let it deter yas.

Happy hunting ... lol, you have heard all this befor ... too.

[smed]

[pennyhound]

[Bob P]

I hear ya Robert. Those so called specialists can and do make idiots of themselves occasionally. But...I must confess, that I, as an attributor for coppercoins.com, can get caught up in that same kind of mess. I try to be as objective as possible when I attribute a coin, but I know I am not the only one who can do this job. One person's opinion doesn't make it the rule. I myself have had coins sent back by another organization or two as too minor to list, even though I thought were pretty nice. They were ultimately listed elsewhere. I am sure I won't please everyone with my attributions at times, but that certainly doesn't limit a persons ability to submit it somewhere else. On the other hand, we have FS numbers being assigned to die gouges and stuff like that. When will the madness end? Either way it goes, Gabes coin as well as your 2004 DDO/DDR and other wavy step and doubled dies are indeed valid doubled dies. All of their characteristics match what those same 'experts' determined years ago were doubled dies. I'll bet if your coins were owned by them, not only would they be major discoveries, but there would be more than just the articles as printed in NN and CW.
To me...when I hear or read about these discoveries, I ask myself the question....Is this coin worth me looking for? My asnwer to all of this is... you bet! I will be looking because in my eyes, and as a collector, it would be a fine addition to my collection....NO MATTER WHAT anyone else says. Case Closed!

[Gabe]

Yep Bob, you practically said it how it is.

When Fivaz assings FS numbers to a coin, it is because of its popularity and value. I dont think he takes to much consideration the fact that the coin could be a doubled die, die damage or something like that. Did you know that the 2004-P Dime with the die guague in the ear that made some specialist believe it was a doubled die has FS numbers assigned to it now. Although I know the coin is not a doubled die or anything like that, the trend always is to follow FS numbers, so I will keep my eye out for that one.

I have to agree with all of the comments in the thread. The more I learn about other organizations and other people in the hobby, I begin to notive what Chuck has been preaching all along.

The other groups have other interests in mind that just the public's.

[Bob P]

AMEN Gabe!

[lucky2]

Any coin that I can purchase for a cent and sell for a dollar is worth looking for. My problem is getting Bob P to quit saying no to all my fantastic new finds. LOL~lucky2

[Bob P]

Well Lucky2...I am sure that some day, I will say YES to one of your coins, and you'll be so awestruck...you won't know what to do What makes things so interesting though, is that for every 'no' out there, there are plenty of 'yes' possibilities. Believe me when I tell you that there is nothing I would want more than to tell someone they have something special. I am sure your time is coming, and when it does, you'll be excited like a little kid again. I really do love this hobby!
I did have a special find a couple of weeks ago that we are hoping to have published in the Numismatic News in the next week or two. Look out for it! If it doesn't come out there, I will post pics and stuff here. This is another example of how something can go unnoticed or un-reported...in this case, for 89 years. Major or nice finds happen every day. is your turn next???