1954S Question

Steven · Expert Member

Is it possible to have hub and machine doubling on the same coin in the same general area such as the date? Or am I just seeing things that are not there? Shocked

Steven

coop · Expert Member

Steven: Looks very promissing Exclamation

Check out this tag on the site:
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/diestate.php?date=1954&die_id=1954s1do002&die_state=mds

See if your coin has a L above the L in LIBERTY. Seems like most the of the Bar-L varieties have the same mark on the date. I had one that didn't and found it had a doubled eyelid. The coin on the site is not as strong as your example. Compare the markers with the site. You may have a later die state and the die wore deeper when it made your coin or yours could be from a different die all together. Great find.

But as to your original question. You can have both machine doubling and a doubled die on the same coin. Remember its the machinery that is at fault on machine doubling. The doubling is cause the die has a doubling on it. So if the machine had a doubled die in the machine and the machine was loose you could have both. I have one coin like that. The right hand half of the reverse is a doubled die. The left hand half is machine doubled. What a strange coin showing both, but the machine doubling ruins the value of the doubled die. So it is not a gook thing to happen to a coin. I keep it an an education piece. Hope this answers your question.

Steven · Expert Member

I have looked very close and none of the markers apply to the 002. There is no dbl eye and no extention above the L. There is some doubling above the B and R of liberty. I've tried to get clear photos but this is the best I could get. Probably mechanical with wear taking away the shelving appearance?
Thanks,
Steven

Bob P · Site Admin

This is definitely an established class 8 doubled die under the 4 of the date. There are three of these for 1954S. The mintmark position determines which of the 3 you have.
I think what Coop stated about the strike mechanical doubling ruining the value of a coin is not necessarily true (sorry coop). Sure, it detracts from it, and if it interfered with being able to see the doubled die, I would agree completely) But, in this case, it doesn't. The strike doubling is minor and unobtrusive. As always, the collector would make that determination. In either case, it is a keeper because not many people have seen it, and yours is a very nice example. Congrats!

Steven · Expert Member

Thanks for all the help. I spent a long time looking this one over, more than most. It was very confusing. Is there a reference guide that I can purchase dealing with mint mark locations and what class to attribute a double die too. In the mean time all I can do is post a picture and hope for a determination of the variety. You guys have been great, more than I could have expected.

Thanks Bob and coop,
Steven

Bob P · Site Admin

I would strongly recommend Chucks book 'Looking Through Lincoln Cents' to answer at least one of your questions (the die classes). But since I am about to mail your copy out, I guess you won't have to wait too long for that! As far as mintmark locations, that one depends on the denomination you are looking at. On Lincoln Cents, they are always under the date. If you have any copy of the Red Book, they also list mintmark locations for various coinage. In the case of this coin, the mintmark location and its proximity to the date can be used as a marker. Since they were hand punched until 1989, the location can & will vary. Since there are 3 of the same type of doubled dies on these coins, the locations are marked as: Die 1...Low and centered under the 5 of the date, die 2, centered between the 9 & 5, and die 3 high and centered between the 9 & 5 of the date. Sometimes they are so close to the same position, that overlays are helpful in determining which die you have. We (and most other die attribution services) will put this information in the die description box of the coin attribution information. Hope this helps!

Steven · Expert Member

Thanks this helps a lot.

Steven

coop · Expert Member

Bob: Thanks for the clarification on the MD/DD. Its' always good to keep up to date. Don't worry about stepping on my toes, I have big feet anyway! (So how could you miss?)